Category: Geeks r Us
hello to all readers!
The Consumer Electronics Show (CES) 2010 took place through January 7th-10th. During this show, all technology enthusiasts took part in festivities filled with liquid crystals, Intel chips, Microsoft Xbox pastry, topped with the new Google Nexus pudding. Needless to say, it was a fun event for those who attended, and even those, like myself, who only watched the events unfold from the sidelines, through various blogs and news articles.
One major, or minor in the eyes of some, revealing was Intel's new processors, with the Intel Atom.
The Atom CPUs have been around for a while. In 2007, the first lineup was announced, delivered at the end of that year with major rollouts hitting shelves and virtual stores in 2008.
The n280 was next, with it coming out in late 2008/more like early 2009. It boasted a 60 MHZ difference when it comes to performance (66 MHz actually, but it was only 62 since the n280 clocks in at 1662 MHz realtime). This gave the atom about a 6% benchmark increase in performance.
The n280 was really worth the upgrade, and for those unlocky souls who purchased their netbooks with the n270, that meant buying another $419-450 in a new netbook. Uh, doesn't that end up to be like $800 total - about the same you'd of spent on getting a full blown laptop? yeah... About that.
The new n450's are on the block. I've heard of a possible duo core n470, but they didn't announce that at CES.
So really, what does the n450 have to offer? Not much.
The n450 has all 3 chips (CPU, Memory controler, and graphics) on lesser circuits, that is, only 2 chips. This reduces the footprint of the CPU, as electric current only has to go so far through circuits.
For the nongeek, that means a better battery life, and maybe a slight increase in graphics.
Users like me who purchased their netbooks in late November in hopes of having it for college are probably wondering, is it worth it?
There are several new netbooks on the market now, and they will begin to ship massively on January 15. My toshiba nb205 got a face-lift with the n450 as well, featuring no major visual style diferences, besides the battery pack not bulging out from the back - a sure sign that my netbook case will not fit on it. Damn. And I was hoping to recycle parts of this netbook when I retire it with a new one at the end of next year... If I'll have the money that is.
The new netbooks don't offer much over their older counterparts. The nb205 offers an 11 hour battery life, versus the 9.5 hours I can squeeze out of it now. That is around Intel's standards for the n450, which state that the less circuitry means anywhere from 20-60% power lessening.
Is it worth the upgrade?
In my humble opinion, no. I think that if you've been able to stick with your netbook for this long, still enjoy using it day-to-day in school and sometimes even substitute it over your desktop or laptop, keep using it. In the longrun, your poor netbook won't feel so abandoned in a storage box or in the hands of some careless user wh will only eat and slobber on it. You (and your netbook) may want to wait til the n470 is launched, which will feature a 1.83 CPU. That is a 170 MHz increase, nearly 10% better than the current 1.66 GHz. Expect those netbooks to probably be in line by this year's early bird/black Friday sales.
-Tamas Geczy
resources:
Check out
Check out this article in the EE journal, benchmarking all three Atom processors!
I've got an Acer Aspire One, the 8.9 in. Sapphire lue model with a 1.6 GHz Intel Atom N270 processor, and I can't say speed has ever been an issue. I've heard that it's not as fast as some more powerful machines, like my Macbook, but honestly, I can't see the difference. The only advantage for me in the new systems, judging from your description, is the longer battery life. It's still not up to older palmtop standards, but it's totally acceptable for a windows machine.
Journalist: I know this isn't quite the feedback you were looking for on this thread, but you show promise as a technical journalist. I'm no journalist myself, I develop software for a living, but you seem to write well - other writers on here would be better critics than I to that end - but you don't use that damned text-message speak a lot of people do on their blogs now, and you have your facts straight.
In short you appear to only write about what you know and don't tend to stretch it; this is welcome. Also your average person willl listen to someone like you long before someone like myself or us engineer types. It's refreshing to see someone who can communicate well, identify with the user without insulting their intelligence, but bring this stuff to them. As I said, let the real writers on here critique that; I'm pretty inefficient with text but keep going on this stuff ...
If you read this post and you don't understand, do research, or don't worry about it.
the n450 is very deceiving.
Supposely it is the new and improved atom processor over the n280, but it is really not.
The only benefit that is practical is that the n450 permits it to be installed in a 64bit netbook system, while the n280 can not handle that environment.
The n450 is c0 stepping, while the n280 is a0.
Also, the n450 can withstand 100c temp, while the n280 can handle about 90c.
However, the n450 is about 3watts more than the n280. Which in affects, cuts down in battery life.
They are both 45nm and are at 667fsb.
I sure will not jump out of my seat to get my hands on an n450 anytime soon.
Remember that the n470, though at a higher clockspeed means decreased battery life.
Soon the netbook will be under the 4 hour threshhold if clockspeed gets any higher and it will behoove people to just either stick with the n280's or simply go for the p series.
But the 32nm processors are in the near horizon and that will greatly improve the battery.
However, if you are of the mind to "wait"for the next processor to come out, because of this and that, you will never be getting yourself a laptop.
Unfortunately, battery technology isn't included in Moore's Law. We need the journalist to explain Moore's Law to the average user, because if I do it they'll probably shake their head confused ... lol
To Robozork:
Thanks for the complements. I usually do try to research before I post, or in the case of software testing, dig a little bit deeper into the core so to speak of the program to find out it's usability. In today's world, time is what is so important, and everywhere you look you see time, time, time constraints. While I try to review/post about things in a timely manner, I also believe in quality over time many times - a lot of people post either by making things up in their heads and than writing or only researching for 5 minutes. And I hate textspeak... I'm going to major in communications and minor in computing in college haha.
to skpoet711
I will admit without shame that I have not seen that the n450 supports 64-bit during my research, but doing more digging online in deed reveals this. Thanks for that tip :) Will due even deeper digging next time. I still don't think 64-bit support should really entice users to upgrade, as a lot of 64-bit (especially 64-bit windows) is driver locked, meaning that you need a driver signed in order to install it, unless you perform hacks to disable this, and these can often be tedious ones which an average user wouldn't care to due. Ubuntu and other linux distros are more geared towards 64-bit and can take better advantage of it's features.
Couple this with the 2 gb ram limit on the n450 (and currently most netbooks which have an atom CPU), and 64 bit becomes worthless. One reason people switch to 64-bit is because it can address their full 4-8 gb ram needs.
Now, regarding the more watt usage.
I've seen this one, and here is the deal. The n450 uses 5.5 Wats of power (CPU alone), but with all chips (that is in the case of the n450, including the memory controler-as the graphics chip is part of the CPU now), it rises to 7 watts.
The n280's CPU uses 2.5W(so it is lower in deed by 3 watts as you have correctly stated), however since the graphics chip and memory controler are separate, the total kit power (as it's called) of the n280 is 11W.
Thus you have pretty much a 4 Watt reduction compared to older Atom models. This is probably another reason for them being able to squeeze more battery life out of it.
The n470 will use 6.5 wats, about a 1 watt increase from the n450.
Check this Engadget article out about the 470
Doing calculations, this will make the n470's total kit power rise to 8 W-still 3 Wats below the n280's power usage. That will still leave us with at least 10 hours of battery life on most netbooks - and knowing Asus and their Super Hybrid Engine (she rocks), they will be able to probably surpass that.
All the best,
Tomi
I agree about Linux being better for 64 bit over all. I also try not to use any text speak when I write stuff either. I don't see the point of having 64 bit on a netbook either, unless it is running Linux or Unix. I remember Tomi you had said that you'd prefer having Win xP on a netbook, do you still stand by that statement with the duel core options, that will be available soon? I myself will look into the Toshiba model you had suggested since it would be nice not to have to recharge my machine every 4-4.5 hours. I also like the fact that some of the netbooks besides the one you've got and that are coming out now have full sized keyboards. I just hope that the new generation of netbooks make it easier to install programs and OSes using an external dvdrw drive.
hi,
yeah, I'd stil go with XP on a netbook - my experiences with win7 weren't so great with JAWS running on top of it.
That is, with the n450 still.
Yeah, on core duo netbooks, especially on the one listed in a previous thread which uses a desktop atom CPU, windows 7 is for sure the way to go. To tell you the truth, XP runs way to snappy on the atom n280 in my toshiba. It's really JAWS that can snap your CPU down, and so can system access a bit...
Same goes for the new n470 coming out soon. Go with 7 if you want better security and support from MS (xp support ends in 2011 as far as I know), and a 170 MHz increase in CPU speed is quite significant.
I have seen other netbooks with the full sized keyboard, too. I think asus in particular will start to get on with that, because they are seeing some of the reason why the Toshiba and the Samsung nc10 win in some parts of the competition: Both netbooks (and I've seen both) offer full keyboards, though the Samsung's isn't as spaced out, at least with the one I saw on display. All this will let me have more selection come the end of the year :)
To tomi,
Thanks for your quick response. Microsoft might stop support for XP in 2011, but security updates will not stop until April 8, 2014. Either that or if Microsoft decides to release another service pack for XP, or delays the date. It has done so in the past, at least when it comes to how long it would sell XP for. I just wish that Win 7 pro weren't so damn expensive. Mac OSX Snow Leopard is $30 per desktop. SuSE by Novell for Linux is $50 per desktop. Microsoft Win 7 without the educational discount is $140 on newegg. While XP Pro 32 bit is $145, they are both the OEM or system builder versions.
Ok, a couple questions here...
The original Toshiba netbook is the one that has been pulling me for the last 6 months or so. With the 280 itom.
1. Is it worth it to purchase the updated model? If so, how do I get XP on it? I think they all have win7 starter.
2. Did I understand the following correctly...?
The battery doesn't stick out like a tootsy role anymore?
And now there is nearly 11 hours bat life?
Did they improve sound quality? *smile*
Thanks for the info, and I too love not reading the text message speak on a regular post.
ok :) Here are my answers.
First, the new model is the nb305. It should start selling after January 16th and expect it to be on store shelves next week.
I don't believe the price tag has changed much over the previous nb205 - that is, it should run you no more than $419 - the previous models ran for $400.
1. They all come with Windows 7 starter, yes. Sadly there is no way to ask for an XP model, especially with the nb305 (maybe some xp-based 205s are out there). You might be able to call Toshiba and ask if they could give you an XP recovery media for their netbook line - I think they might be able to. I'm not discouraging you from trying Windows 7 on the it. Who knows, you may be able to run 7 better than I did - so I encourage everyone to first try it for a few days, browse the net with it, see how your performance is (if keys lag, etc), and than if you're noticing slow key responses with your AT product, install XP.You might need sighted help switching the bios from sata to ata. To put it short, newer computers access the hard disk drive differently than computers from 2001/2003. They use something called Serial ATA, which Windows xp doesn't support.
I will detail a bit how I got Windows Xp on my nb205.
I was able to compile the sata drivers into my XP install, though this made no real difference since after the third phase of setup (right when your comp reboots) Windows couldn't load because it couldn't find a hard-drive (hence, the Serial ata drivers didn't work - only during the setup process). Basically I spent 30 minutes trying to integrate the drivers into my xp CD, which was wasted I guess because of that result...
XP installs in like 20 minutes. Seriously fast.
After install, you won't have sound. I'm gonna say this now: Use service pack 3. That is, if you only have an xpsp2 installation disk, please slipstream xpsp3 into it. Slipstreaming is the process of integrating a servicePack into your installation media. This is because Sp3 includes the high definition audio support drivers. The nb305/205 (and pretty much all modern computers nowadays) feature high definition audio, which is a new standard.
So you will need the audio drivers for the nb205. You might be asking, from where?
while you could go to
Toshiba's site
, click on support and painfully find the netbook and it's drivers, chances are that most of them will not support XP - they will be designed for 7.
This blog post has the xp drivers for the nb205. Note that most of these should work,
besides your display driver since the 305 uses a different chipset... I will look into seeing if the new chipsets have xp drivers for them, which they should :) I'm using these drivers on my nb205 and they work fine.
update: It appears, according to
So it is lower pricing than the nb205 was, which is great! I'd get it, but don't have the budget now, the 205 suits me just fine at the moment :)
2. Yes, the battery doesn't roll out from the machine like it did previously.
Yep, 11 hours! 2 more than myne :)
And finally, no... Sadly it appears that the speakers are just as tiny as week. A notch up from my iPod Nano's built in speakers, lol!
-Tomi
oh man, my links got totally messed up :(
Sorry about that. Wish the board checked your HTML, but guess not :)
so. According to
This blog post
The nb305 is $300shipping, from
Newegg.
Ok, hope this turns out ok... All the links should be correct!
-Tomi
ok, one more note. the windows 7 starter version is $350, while the xp one is $310. That's $40 off just because you'd use xp!
Oy, decisions decisions!
I was thinking of getting this for my spouse, but now I don't know which to choose!
jr.com has the latest Toshiba model in stock already.
Toshiba mini NB305-N410BN 10.1" Netbook - Java Brown
Intel Atom N450 1.66GHz Processor / 1GB RAM / 250GB Hard Drive / Intel GMA 3150 /
802.11N / 6-cell Li-ion battery / Webcam / Windows 7 Starter
I just don't know if a sighted person will want to jump up to full windows7 right away, and do you notice they upgraded all these specs, but left the ram the same? Is this a bad thing??
The netbook will be used for meetings outside the office, word processing, web surfing, and maybe playing some games from big fish. Probably using excel and power point and such, not fully sure.
Hmmm... I'm going to think on this one. Everything I'm reading is making xp sound so out dated now. Isn't it still a great option for netbooks?